Hi So i started making my own bleed build and i have been wondering about how Bleeds work in accordance with Crimson Dance and Ruthlessness. So Ruthlessness basiclly makes every third attack double damage or slight more i guess. So lets say i do 1000 dmg on a normal hit, and thus i do a bleed for 350 dmg. Which i can stack 8 times. But is it correctly assumed, because bleed is based of the physical hit, that if i used ruthlessness, every third hit would be double damage, and so every third bleed is 700 intsead? This making the bleed stacks look like this 350 - 350 - 700 - 350 - 350 - 700 - 350 - 350 right? So if i have increased bleed duration and have a really high attack speed, (this is the really tricky question), then what happends when i have 8 stacks of the above and i keep attack? Does it change out the low bleed (350) for the higher hit bleeds (700) so that it eventually will be only high stack bleeds (because of ruthlessness every third hit is way bigger) ? Also i have a bonus question. Through the duelist tree there is alot of increased phys dmg nodes which also has inc ailment damage. Does this mean that from such a note, my initial hit is bigger, and thus my bleed is bigger. And then afterwards it also calculates the ailment increased on the bleed so that note effectively applies both number? Last bumped on Aug 10, 2017, 6:41:45 AM | Posted by on Aug 9, 2017, 8:04:22 AM |
'This is no longer true. Size of the hit has no effect on the size of the bleed. Nodes such as '10% increased damage with melee weapons' does not increase your bleed at all. This is true for all ailments now; poison, ignite and bleed. 'Internally the game keeps track of all the bleeds inflicted upon enemy and uses the eight biggest ones. This is how it has always been for ignites and bleeds (biggest one counts, but all of them are tracked and time goes down on all of them), so one would assume this mechanic has remained unchanged. | Posted by on Aug 9, 2017, 8:30:35 AM |
I see, but on the wiki it states that bleed is based off of your hit. If that is not the case anymore, then what is it based of? Your hit is definitely bigger when u get increased physical melee dmg. So how is it calculated now, and is bleed build essentially shit now then? | Posted by on Aug 9, 2017, 6:45:05 PM |
'That is old info. The wiki is powered by user contributions, not by GGG. You can think that the ailments and hits each have their separate damage chains that start from the flat damage (ie. weapon damage + flat added damage * skill damage) then those two chains get their increases and multipliers separately. Say you have a weapon that deals 100 damage, a ring that gives +20 damage and use a skill that deals 150% of weapon damage. Your base damage would thus be: (100 + 20) * 1.5 = 180 This would be the same for both hits and bleed. Thus per second the bleeding deals 126 damage per second if target is stationary (180 * 0.7) or 378 damage per second if target is moving (180 * 2.1). ' So lets put some modifiers. Say you have 20% increased melee damage and 20% increased damage with melee weapons. As these have both the word melee they are not applicable to ailments, Thus the hits would now deal 252 damage (180 * 1.4) while the bleeding still does the same. Now lets add a bleeding modifier of +150% increased damage with bleeding. This has no effect on the hit obviously, but this increase is only added to the base damage we calculated earlier, thus the new bleeding damage with this modifier against stationary targets is now 315 damage per second (180 * 2.5 * 0.7) or 945 damage per second if the target is moving (180 * 2.5 * 2.1). So adding flat damage increases both your hits and ailments. Adding 'increased with melee', 'increased with weapon' etc only increases your hits. You can think of bleed as having only three keywords 'ailment', 'bleed' and 'physical' anything that increases those will work on bleed (global damage obviously as well hurrdurr). Anyway, I hope this cleared the confusion. It took me a while to wrap my head around at start as well. Last edited by SodanKerjuu on Aug 10, 2017, 6:47:32 AM | Posted by on Aug 10, 2017, 6:41:45 AM |
How do damage reduction from armor, damage reduction from resistances, and missile/melee damage reduction interact? For example, let's say I have X armor which translates to x% damage reduction f. So i started making my own bleed build and i have been wondering about how Bleeds work in accordance with Crimson Dance and Ruthlessness. So Ruthlessness basiclly makes every third attack double damage or slight more i guess. So lets say i do 1000 dmg on a normal hit, and thus i do a bleed for 350 dmg. Which i can stack 8 times. This is a reference page for embolden verb forms in present, past and participle tenses. Find conjugation of embolden. Check past tense of embolden here. Instead of picking physical dmg increase rubies taking holy dmg increase rubies (they both increase same amount dmg) will increase your overall dps since most of your skill does holy dmg.Also you said you are focusing single target dps with some aoe dmg. To embolden someone is to inspire them. You might embolden your brother to try out for a play by enthusiastically praising his singing and dancing abilities.
![Embolden Embolden](https://www.mooglemedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/guidesgalore-1024x512.jpg)
![Does Embolden Increace My Own Mellee Dmg? Does Embolden Increace My Own Mellee Dmg?](/uploads/1/3/4/3/134384661/633878860.jpg)
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I have some questions about if and how poison damage is influenced by damage increases. There is very little information out there and even that is contradictory. So I decided to create some examples that are not realistic but should make the machanics clear. If you answer on this thread without being sure you are correct feel free to do so, but please note that in your answer (I think, I believe, I guess etc.). Thank you all for your help! I have an attack skill with 1000 base chaos damage and no other damage. No critical strike chance, 100% chance to hit, 100% chance to poison, no increases to poison damage. Then I get 200 damage per second from my poison. (1) Now I have 10% increased attack damage. How much damage per second do I get from my poison? (2) Instead I have 10% increased chaos damage. How much poison damage per second? (3) No longer no critical strike chance, instead 100% critical strike chance, 200% critical strike multiplier, no Perfect Agony allocated. (The hit now deals 2000 damage.) How much poison damage per second do I get? Last edited by VValnuss on Feb 27, 2018, 11:36:32 AM | Posted by VValnuss on Feb 27, 2018, 11:33:10 AM |
Posted by VValnuss on Feb 27, 2018, 11:37:59 AM | |
Unless there is somehow some hidden mechanics that i don't know about i'm 95% sure i'm right according to my knowledge. 1. 200. Base dmg is not changed 1000*0.2 = 200 2. 220. This is called double dipping, where the modifier applies to the original hit and the ailment caused by the hit, THIS IS NO LONGER IN THE GAME, was removed due to being too op. Poison is calculated from the BASE DAMAGE of the hit now, NOT THE SCALED DAMAGE. 3. 300. Base crit for ailemnt is 150% and cannot be changed except Perfect Agony. 1000*0.2*1.5 = 300 Last edited by 5Six on Feb 27, 2018, 12:23:22 PM | Posted by on Feb 27, 2018, 12:07:32 PM |
' Correct. ' Poison is not Attack Damage. It is Damage over Time, which is a fundamentally different Damage Source than Attack Damage. Thus your Poison will still do the same 200 Damage per second. ' Poison is Chaos Damage, so it is affected by this modifier. You deal 200 * 1.1 = 220 Damage per second. ' I will quote Rory: ' Without Perfect Agony, Your Critical Strike Multiplier has no effect on 'Damage Multiplier for Ailments from Critical Strikes' (which might be the worst named stat in all of PoE). The base value of this multiplier is 150%, so Poison inflicted from a Critical Hit will deal 200 * 1.5 = 300 Damage per second. Further reading: Ailment, Poison; Developer Manifesto: Damage over Time changes, Part 2 of the same, FAQ Part 1, Part 2; Mark_GGG with pictures And the unrighteous were turned to ash! And the unrighteous were turned to ash -- to aaash!! Last edited by Abdiel_Kavash on Feb 27, 2018, 12:27:59 PM | Posted by on Feb 27, 2018, 12:22:47 PM |
Thank you again! I consider my questions answered. | Posted by VValnuss on Feb 27, 2018, 1:59:05 PM |
Hello Exiles :D I also have some questions abaut Poison and don't want to open another Thread. Hope it is Ok. I'm New to the Game an wanted to start with the new League. I know so far: +Base Damage from Weapon, Armor and Support Gems are summarized for the Poison Damage calculation. But some Terms in relation to Buff Poison are kinda Confusing. But now to the Questions. -- To use an similar example. We have 1000 Physical Damage with an Attack Skill. 1) And just the Passive Bow Note: 'Master Fletcher' 24% increased Phys Dmg with Bows. 10% chance to Poison on hit with Attacks. 24% inreased Damage with Ailments from Attack Skills while wielding a Bow. I Hit the Enemy for 1240 Physical(1000*1.24) in the Face. And inflict 248 Poison(1000*0.2*1,24) over 2Seconds? (Wiki said 20% is PoisonDamage and duration 2seconds) Is Poison an Ailment from an Attack Skill? Like Bleed from Puncture? Or just from the hit? -- 2) Now we will just add: 20% Increased Global Physical Damage. Does it inflict 240 Poison(1000*0,2*1.2)or still just 200 Poison(1000*0.2)? At which Point get the Physical Dmg of the Attack converted to ChaosDamage? -- Thanks for the Help. | Posted by leptosomatidae on Feb 28, 2018, 12:23:39 AM |
' Correct on both accounts. (It is 248 Poison Damage per second over 2 seconds, so 496 Poison Damage total.) ' Poison delivered by an Attack is an Ailment from Attack Skill. But you can also deliver Poison through Spells; in that case it is not. ' The latter. Poison is Chaos Damage, not Physical. It will not benefit from Physical Damage modifiers. ' Never. Poison Damage starts as Chaos Damage, it never gets converted to anything. (And fundamentally cannot get converted, as it is Damage over Time.) And the unrighteous were turned to ash! And the unrighteous were turned to ash -- to aaash!! Last edited by Abdiel_Kavash on Feb 28, 2018, 3:55:24 AM | Posted by on Feb 28, 2018, 3:50:45 AM |
' Can you back this up? It is not consistent with my understanding. And I just 'tested' (per character screen) and (global) Physical Damage does increase the 'Poison damage per second' stat - as expected. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle! | Posted by Zrevnur on Feb 28, 2018, 9:18:49 AM |
' From https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1897612. And the unrighteous were turned to ash! And the unrighteous were turned to ash -- to aaash!! | Posted by on Feb 28, 2018, 9:29:08 AM |
' Not sure what you are trying to say with the quote. I dont see how it matters/applies here. The issue here is about 'global/generic physical damage' (which applies to ailments) not 'increased melee physical damage' (which does not apply to ailments). Far as I understand poison does work akin to damage conversion so all the modifiers 'prior' to chaos damage 'conversion' do work. No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle! | Posted by Zrevnur on Feb 28, 2018, 10:48:17 AM |